Welcome back to A Read of Ice and Fire! Please join me as I read and react, for the very first time, to George R.R. Martin’s epic fantasy series A Song of Ice and Fire.
Today’s entry is Part 33 of A Feast for Crows, in which I do something resembling a review of the whole novel.
Previous entries are located in the Index. The only spoilers in the post itself will be for the actual chapters covered and for the chapters previous to them. As for the comments, please note that the Powers That Be have provided you a lovely spoiler thread here on Tor.com. Any spoileriffic discussion should go there, where I won’t see it. Non-spoiler comments go below, in the comments to the post itself.
And now, the post!
It was suggested to me, by TPTB and by various commenters, that given the way AFFC’s narrative timeline is all tangled up with A Dance With Dragons, the next novel in the series proper, that it might be useful to me to have a little something in the way of an overall review of the novel, both to refresh my memory somewhat and to have something to refer back to easily if necessary.
I was initially rather disinclined to do this, in keeping with my general policy of not going back over already-covered material in an effort to keep my reactions as fresh as possible, but I have to admit that given the rate at which I am covering the story, at this stage my forgetting of Things What Happened has possibly gotten a little dire. So as a compromise, I figure I’ll just go over my posts on AFFC only and write myself a little refresher/predictory thingy. Which, incidentally, will also give me a chance to think on my reactions to the novel overall.
And, since the novels were apparently divided up by character arcs, I also figure the easiest (and least confusing) way to do this is to go through the novel by character, and put all their crap in one place, so to speak. So that’s what we are doing! Hooray!
Onward!
Character: Pate the Acolyte
What Happens to Him in AFFC
Well, he dies, apparently, in the Prologue, after giving a mysterious “alchemist” a skeleton key that gives access to the entire Citadel, because he was also apparently a giant moron. And then, mysteriously, he shows up again in the last scene of the book. OR DOES HE.
What I Think Will Happen
Well, either the rumors of Pate the Acolyte’s death are greatly exaggerated, or the Pate we see in the last scene with Sam and Mervyn Marwyn the Mage is an impersonator, and there is a mole in the Citadel poised to do pretty immense damage if he so chooses. Methinks Sam should beware.
Characters: the Greyjoys
What Happens to Them in AFFC
So, Aeron drowns and punches people, is insufferably self-righteous, and calls a kingsmoot because the idea of either Asha or Euron getting the throne gives him religious hives. Asha tries to gather allies, but shockingly discovers that sexism is a thing. Asha then tries to make a deal to share power with Victarion, but Victarion is too busy with his douchetastic mangst over murdering his own wife because Euron raped her, because that was totally her fault, of course, Jesus H., and refuses.
They have a kingsmoot, and Asha almost wins with her promise of peace, but then Euron shows up with his magically ominous Horn O’ Grand Theft Dragon™, and promises the ironborn all of Westeros if they support him, and because the ironborn are greedy sexist idiots, they pick him instead. Yay.
After the kingsmoot, Asha flees, and Aeron disappears after failing to convince Victarion to kill Euron. Victarion helps Euron raid the shit out of the area around Highgarden, and is disturbed to discover Euron is not only an even bigger asshole than he is, he is completely batshit crazy to boot. Euron entreats Victarion to go across the ocean and capture Daenerys Stormborn to be Euron’s bride, and Victarion agrees, but secretly decides he is going to keep her for himself.
What I Think Will Happen
Ugh.
Characters: the Martells
What Happens to Them in AFFC
Oberyn’s bastard daughters, known as the Sand Snakes, want to march against Westeros in retaliation for his murder, and/or wed Princess Myrcella to Prince Trystane and then declare her for the Iron Throne, but Prince Doran has them all imprisoned before they can act. His daughter and heir Arianne seduces Ser Arys Oakheart, Myrcella’s protector, and convinces him to abet a scheme in which they abduct Myrcella from Doran and crown her queen of Westeros, which Arianne also hopes will secure her own succession from her brother Quentyn, who is across the ocean doing something mysterious with mercenaries. The plan goes awry when Areo Hotah intercepts them and kills Ser Arys; Ser Gerold Dayne, one of Arianne’s companions, attempts to kill Myrcella, but is thwarted and escapes.
Arianne is brought back to Sunspear and imprisoned, with no knowledge of who betrayed her plan, and is finally taken to see her father Doran, who tells her Ser Gerold Dayne did not succeed in killing Myrcella, but mutilated her face permanently. She accuses him of favoring Quentyn over her, but Doran tells her he means her to have Dorne. He had wanted her to marry Viserys Targaryen, but he had died, and has sent Quentyn on a mission to bring him back his heart’s desire: vengeance.
What I Think Will Happen
Doran = Sneaky McSneakerson. Secretly a Targaryen fanboi!
Between Quentyn and Victarion/Euron, I just hope that Dany’s set up some kind of Amber Alert system for herself AND her dragons, because whoo-ee with the multiple kidnapping schemes! Although possibly Quentyn is only going to offer her an alliance. Let’s hope for that.
Still no idea if I’ve met Quentyn, in disguise or as himself, but I probably have. Presumably we’ll get back to Dany in ADWD and I’ll find out.
Also: poor Myrcella.
Character: Cersei Lannister
What Happens to Her in AFFC
Cersei discovers her father is murdered and Tyrion and Varys are missing, and immediately moves to secure her place as Regent, estranging Jaime and Kevan in the process. She allows Tommen’s marriage to Margaery Tyrell though furious about it, and burns the Tower of the Hand to the ground. She finds an unexpected ally in Lady Taena Merryweather, and refuses to listen to Jaime’s advice on her choices of advisors, particularly Qyburn, who is doing some very questionable things under the aegis of being her spymaster. She ignores her debts and appoints weaklings and toadies to her council.
She has Jon Snow declared a traitor for harboring Stannis, and laughs off reports of dragons overseas. She sends Mace Tyrell to subdue Dragonstone, and receives news that Lord Manderly has executed Stannis’s “onion knight.” She arranges for Ser Balman Stokeworth to assassinate Bronn, who had the temerity to name his son “Tyrion,” only to find out later that Bronn killed Balman instead.
She meets with the new High Septon, a fanatically devout man installed by the “sparrows,” and agrees to let him rearm the faith in exchange for his endorsement of King Tommen and forgiveness of the crown’s debts. When news comes of the ironmen’s depradations, she refuses to release forces to meet them until Dragonstone falls, whereupon Ser Loras Tyrell asks to go lead the siege there. Loras is grievously wounded in the resulting battle.
Cersei is obsessed with a prophecy made to her by Maggy the Frog in her youth, in which “the valonqar” (which she translates as “little brother,” i.e. Tyrion) is supposed to kill her, and in which she is ousted as queen by a younger, prettier woman, whom she assumes is Margaery Tyrell. To that end, she sets up an elaborate and deeply ethically bankrupt scheme to frame Margaery (and her cousins) for the capital crime of adultery, but it backfires drastically on her, and the High Septon arrests her for the very crimes she was accusing Margaery of. Desperate, she instructs Qyburn to send for Jaime to come rescue her.
What I Think Will Happen
I do love that I called her crash-and-burnination from the moment she showed up as a POV character, but I’m not sure I should actually get kudos for that, because it was kind of blatantly obvious from the moment she got going.
My hopes are that she is Done For, because (a) she deserves it and (b) I am just tired of reading about her. Here’s hoping.
Character: Brienne of Tarth
What Happens to Her in AFFC
Brienne sets about her hero’s quest to find Sansa Stark, given her by Jaime and hindered by patriarchy. She repaints her shield with Dunk’s old sigil, and is soon joined by Tyrion’s former squire, Podrick Payne. She goes to Maidenpool, and meets Ser Hyle Hunt there, who had treated her badly in her youth. He takes her to Randyll Tarly, who treats her worse, but tells her of Lady Lysa’s murder. She finds a man called Nimble Dick, and bribes him to take her to where he claims he saw a “fool” take two girls to sea.
They run into several thugs from Vargo Hoat’s crew, and Brienne kills them, but not before they kill Nimble Dick. Hyle Hunt joins her and Podrick, rather against Brienne’s will, and they head to Saltpans, because Timeon claimed Sandor Clegane had “the Stark girl” with him, and that’s where he was supposedly last seen. They travel with a septon named Meribald, who brings them to the Quiet Isle, where Brienne sees a suspiciously hulking penitent and a suspiciously aggressive war stallion in the stables. The Elder Brother tells her that the Stark girl with the Hound was Arya, not Sansa, and that the Hound is dead. He urges her to abandon her quest, but Brienne tells him she cannot.
They stop at an inn populated with orphans, including one named Gendry who bears a startling resemblance to Renly, and are surprised by riders, one of whom is Rorge, wearing the Hound’s helm. Brienne kills him, but then Biter attacks her, and manages to severely mutilate her face before Gendry kills him.
Wounded and feverish, Brienne is brought before Lady Stoneheart, aka Undead!Catelyn Stark, who accuses her of treachery and oathbreaking, and offers Brienne a choice: kill Jaime Lannister, or hang. Brienne refuses to make the choice, and Catelyn’s followers nearly hang her, and Brienne screams “a word.”
What I Think Will Happen
I was confused about this last bit initially, till it was pointed out that Brienne could have shouted “Sword!” since that’s how the choice she was given was phrased. So presumably she’s agreed to kill Jaime in order to save herself, and now I am reduced to hoping that she recognizes what bullshit that “oath” is and ignores it, but given Brienne’s devotion to honor I am less than hopeful. Blarg.
Character: Samwell Tarly
What Happens to Him in AFFC
Jon Snow sends Sam, over his objections, to Oldtown with Gilly and her baby and the old maester Aemon (and Dareon), to study at the Citadel and replace Aemon, who will not live much longer, and also to keep Aemon (and, we discover later, Mance’s son, who has been switched out for Gilly’s real child) from Melisandre, who needs royal blood to complete her ritual of whatever.
They have a terrible journey by ship, and end up stranded in Braavos, with Aemon growing weaker by the day. Sam meets a young girl selling shellfish when she rescues him from some cutthroats, and she tells him where to find Dareon: in a brothel. Sam becomes enraged that Dareon is ignoring his oaths and his companions and pummels him until thrown into a canal, whereupon he is rescued by a Summer Islander named Xhondo, who offers him passage on his ship Cinnamon Wind.
Aemon dies while on board, but not before becoming convinced that Daenerys is the answer to the prophecy, not Stannis as Melisandre believes, and urging Sam to convince the maesters at the Citadel of the same, and to get them to send her a maester to advise her. Gilly suggests naming Dalla’s child Aemon Battleborn in his honor, and she and Sam end up sleeping together, to Sam’s deep shame.
They make it to Oldtown, where he meets Alleras the Sphinx, who takes him to Archmaester Marwyn the Mage, who has a burning dragonglass candle in his room. Marwyn is glad Aemon died before reaching the Citadel, for he claims the maesters would have killed him anyway for his support of Daenerys. Marwyn plans to go to her himself, and advises Sam to earn his chain quickly, as he will be needed on the Wall soon. Sam meets another novice there named Pate.
What I Think Will Happen
Go, Sam, go! And don’t get killed by possible assassin impersonators! Or your own teachers! Or your dad! Wow, your life sucks! Yay!
Character: Arya Stark/Cat of the Canals
What Happens to Her in AFFC
Arya arrives in Braavos, and joins up with a Crazy Death Cult the House of Black and White, which serves the Many-Faced God and also apparently trains assassins. She eventually listens to the old man’s exhortations to give up her worldly possessions, except for Needle, which she buries. She is sent to be a fishmonger in the city.
As Cat, she learns many things from her perambulations in the city, including that her aunt Lady Lysa is dead. She sees Dareon, and asks if his “fat brother” found passage to Oldtown; Dareon says not, and she kills him and gives his boots to her employer Brusco. She goes back to the temple, and practices her not-lying skills, and then confesses that Arya Stark killed Dareon. The old man gives her warm milk, and the next day she wakes up blind.
What I Think Will Happen
I have no idea. Except SHE’D BETTER NOT BE PERMANENTLY BLIND, YO. Also, less sociopathy in future, please.
Character: Jaime Lannister
What Happens to Him in AFFC
Wracked with guilt at his unwitting complicity in Tyrion’s murder of their father, Jaime is tormented by Tyrion’s accusations against Cersei, but advises her to let Margaery Tyrell marry Tommen and then send her father Mace off to hopefully be killed taking Storm’s End. He realizes Kevan knows about him and Cersei, and that Cersei knows Kevan knows, and hopes Kevan isn’t going to get assassinated.
He tells Cersei that Taena is a spy for the Tyrells, but Cersei is convinced that she is a double agent on her side, and refuses to listen to him on any of her plans. She eventually kicks him out of King’s Landing, and sends him to deal with the siege on Riverrun. On the journey, he spars with Ser Ilyn Payne in secret in an effort to regain his skill with the sword, with lackluster results. He leaves Ser Bonifer Hasty in charge of Harrenhal, and smacks around one of Brienne’s former suitors for disparaging her.
He dawdles at Darry in an effort to stave off having to break his vow re: taking up arms against the Tullys/Starks, and Lancel confesses to him that he slept with Cersei and arranged for Robert Baratheon’s fatal accident at her behest. Lancel plans to join the new religious order in penance for his sins, and Jaime is deeply embittered by this confirmation of his suspicions about Cersei.
At Riverrun, Jaime’s attempt to parley with Brynden Tully goes badly, and he makes a deal with Edmure Tully instead to surrender the castle. Brynden Tully escapes during the handover, and Edmure and Jeyne Westerling are sent to Casterly Rock as hostages; it is revealed that Lady Sybell was complicit in the events that led to the Red Wedding. Jaime is pleased at his success in taking down Riverrun without violating his oath to Catelyn, and is making plans to have Cersei removed from power when he receives her message pleading for him to come save her. He chucks it in the fire.
What I Think
I reiterate what I already said earlier: such comparatively Nice Things Happening to Jaime means a kick in the teeth doth approacheth, and said kick just might be labeled Brienne of Tarth. DAMMIT.
Character: Sansa Stark/Alayne Stone
What Happens to Her in AFFC
Sansa goes along with Petyr’s schemes and pretends to be his bastard daughter Alayne, and watches as he skillfully manipulates the Vale’s nobility to allow him to keep his role as Lord Protector, most especially in recruiting Ser Lyn Corbray to be his dissenter from within.
She successfully cajoles Lord Robert down off the mountain before they get stranded there by winter, in company with Lady Myranda Royce, whose friendliness she is very wary of. Petyr tells her of his plan to marry her to Harold Hardyng, the heir to the Vale after Lord Robert, and reveal her to be Sansa Stark at the wedding.
What I Think Will Happen
Given this series’ track record with weddings, I am VERY VERY leery of this plan. The End.
What I Think Overall
In retrospect, it makes sense that AFFC only has half the arcs it should have, because in looking over what actually happens in it, it feels very much like only half a novel, despite its objective length. I didn’t feel like it had a climactic moment the way the other novels have had; some of the other novels have had multiple climactic moments, in fact, but it doesn’t really feel like AFFC had one.
There’s Cersei’s downfall, of course, and what happened to Brienne, but… I dunno. Those just didn’t have the punch of, say, the Red Wedding, or Ned Stark’s execution. Of course, given that those two things were possibly the most shocking plot twists I’ve ever read, ever, that may be an unfair comparison, but it is a sad truth that people are always going to be looking for you to top your last amazing feat, and AFFC didn’t really do that, in my opinion.
Basically, my kneejerk reaction is that AFFC is a magic trick set-up looking for a prestige, and not giving us one. So I will have to see if ADWD pulls out the metaphorical rabbit-from-a-hat that this novel did not.
And that’s what I have to say about that, kiddie kadanzies. Next installment will be Part I of “The Mystery Knight,” the third Dunk & Egg story, so gird your loins! See ya!
I’d suggest doing the same note thing with the last couple of chapters of ASoS too, since ADwD is going to restart from that point with different characters. When I read it, it was really hard to remember exactly what was going on with these people. I think part 49 on would be good (about half of it will be quite familiar because it was followed up on in AFfC, of course.)
So does that mean that next week is when the Mystery Knight is picked up?
Simply brilliant summaries. Really well done and lots of funny bits to chew on.
AFFC is nowhere near as good as ASOS – how could it have been, when ASOS concludes the arcs of the opening plotlines. With AFFC, we are setting up for Act 2 and, almost by definition, it can’t be as satisfying. We won’t be able to truly evaluate it until the arcs are concluded in subsequent books.
The set up is there: Brienne facing a life or death or honor choice; Cersei in deep doo doo; Jaime coming into his own and staying out of the poisonous KL problems if he can; Arya advancing in her Jedi training and testing some moral boundaries; Ironborn being sh*ts but sending Vic towards Dany; Dorne being sneaky but sending Q towards Dany; Sam being awesome but facing challenges in Oldtown, etc.
The Greyjoys… I could not agree more. Ugh….
All the rest – you nailed it! I really have to agree with your overall assessment of the book.
The world ran away from GRRM here. Let’s see him try to bring it to heel.
Having never read the Mystery Knight, I’m looking forward to the summary.
Even excluding the Red Wedding, ASOS ended the book with:
1. Tyrion Killing Tywin
2. John becoming Lord Commander
3. Peter pushing Lysa out the castle to her death
4. Arya going across the ocean
And that stuff just happened one after another. There’s just no topping that.
I thought you’d start with the Mystery Knight today. Well, thanks for your overall appraisal of AFFC, Leigh. While I share your criticism over the lack of climax and how slow it gets sometimes, the novel has grown on me over the years. I like the reflections GRRM expresses in his characters about war, religion and vengeance. It’s a very introspective novel, when you think about it. It’s not as good as ASOS, but it’s not as bad as I thought it was back in 2005, when I first read it.
Great Recaps.
Arya – No spoilers, but she is attending sociopathy school…
I have missed my snarky friend Tyrion greatly and look forward to some quality time with him.
This book lives up to it’s title, A Feast For Crows. So much of it is about the aftermath of war, as the vultures swoop down to grab what they can while the central force is otherwise occupied by returning to “normalcy”.
That’s one of the things I’ve always enjoyed, was how apropos the titles are.
Game of Thrones-self explanatory
Clash of Kings-same
Storm of Swords- Sworn Swords are another name for the bannermen. And it is the breakdown of the relationship between those kings and their Sworn Swords that cause so much of the action in this book. The Freys and Boltons storm againt Robb, brutally, the Tyrells storm against the Lannisters, slyly. And the ending, is the one who was supposed to be the most loyal of all, the son, storming against one depridation of his father too many.
The Faceless Men cult is fascinating to me. First of all, the enable euthanasia, something we can’t even get right NOW. And second, this institution is the natural outgrowth of a world of injustice. People come to the Faceless Men to redress wrongs they cannot redress through less violent means. This means that sometimes they end up doing bad things, because they don’t discriminate. But if a lord raped your wife and stole your land, and you couldn’t do anything because the lord was also the force of law, well the Faceless Men would.
@7: That kind of is a spoiler.
One interesting thing about this book is that there are two different POVs of characters who essentially are the “dumb muscle” for their factions — a character type you usually don’t get POV viewpoints from since those guys usually are unimaginative and, well, dumb.
With Areo Hotah, the purpose was obvious. You’re going to a new land where virtually everyone is steeped in some sort of scheme or intrigue, so let’s view them through the eyes of a simple-minded bodyguard, where you’ll get a grasp on Doran, the Sand Snakes, etc., but you won’t get more than an introductory-level view of what they’re capable of.
Victarion is a bit more interesting, solely because of where he’s going. Towards Dany. When he’s essentially the viking reaver alter ego of her deceased mongol reaver husband. With him planning to be the Starscream to Euron, he could be in a very promising position (at least in the short term) if his stupidity doesn’t get the better of him from square one. For, first, being a guy who will likely remind the Girl Ruler Who Likes Bad Boys of her late husband. And, second, for being a member of the family with a history of rebellion against rulers whom Dany would naturally have a grudge against for being part of the rebellion that took her family off the Iron Throne.
It’s really an interesting 50/50 coin flip sort of thing, where it’s easy to see him, despite being an idiot, become the ultimate spanner in the works…or some dumb guy who just got incinerated by dragons because he tried to throw Dany over his shoulder and sail off with her.
@8 I’ve always been a bit suspicious of the Faceless Men. What kind of government is happy with a cult of assassins for hire being based in its capital city? It is not easy to think of any real world analogies.
So in the spoiler thread, I wondered if we are in for some more great “Leigh-isms” in ADWD, but turns out I didn’t have to wait till then. I especially like:
“sha tries to gather allies, but shockingly discovers that sexism is a thing”
and “Victarion is too busy with his douchetastic mangst”
Hilarious!
Even though you didn’t want to read over the posts again, Leigh, I think it will be good in the long run. This series has started to sprawl so much, with the new storylines in Dorne and the Iron Isles, Dany way overseas, Sam in the Citadel, and Arya in Braavos, that it might prove helpful to you in the long run. Not to mention the other characters we will see again in ADWD that didn’t even make it into this book, and maybe even some new ones (like your suspected encounters of Quentyn in the next book).
The Sansa story arc ended with a supposed reveal of part of LF’s plan, but remember that it hinges on Tyrion’s death before it can be enacted. Even if Sansa and Tyrion shouldn’t really be married, I don’t think anyone reading the series wants Tyrion to die, especially not to help further LF’s plans.
I have to say that I loved the Arya story arc in this book, and was disappointed that you didn’t share my love of Braavos, but I can understand your wariness of her joining the House of Black and White.
So, you didn’t say anything about The Alchemist who killed Pate, and then presumably took over his place in the Citadel, but perhaps some things in the next book might help clear that up… Keep it in mind, and also look again at the description of the Alchemist’s face, it was remarkably similar to another face we may have seen before…
Brienne’s arc was nice, even if she didn’t really achieve anything, but her position at the end, having half her face eaten and being sentenced to death unless she kills Jaime, was depressing. And poor Podrick! I hope the BWB at least continue training him to fight while Brienne is away fulfilling her promise.
Sam’s arc is mostly notable for Aemon’s death :-( and for him losing his virginity. And then of course the introduction of Marwyn the Mage, who we have heard about since the first book: In AGOT, Mirri Maz Duur told Dany that she had learned anatomy and other things from a maester named Marwyn, who she met in Asshai, which is supposedly a center for magic in the world of ASOIAF. In ASOS, Qyburn told Jaime that the only Maester he respected was the one who does not dismiss all theories and stories of sorcery: Marwyn. Also, Rodrick the Reader, Asha’s favorite uncle and possibly the only really nice Ironborn, was reading an excerpt of an ancient text that was copied by Archmeister Marwyn.
And after all that buildup, Marwyn was everything I expected and more. I’m very excited to see what he has in store for us and Dany in the future. Fascinating character, with almost a Gandalf-like flair.
I’m excited to get to The Mystery Knight next week, I liked it better than the second Dunk and Egg story, and it has some real relevance to the next book in the series proper.
@10 You know, I hadn’t really thought of Victarion in that light before, but I think you have a point.
Leigh, I like the synopsis. Although the forecast bits are a bit depressing. As others mentioned, AFFC is a much more introspective novel. I still like it, but it is a bit bleak. I just hope you don’t get too bogged down with it, because I still think the series has promise and I would like to see you finish!
I agree with Aeryl, that this book is about the cost of a war. We see just how the entirety of Westeros is suffering after the War of the Five Kings. I would probably say that this is my 2nd or 3rd favorite of the books after A Storm of Swords and A Game of Thrones.
Looking forward to whatever you choose to do next, though I also would advocate The Mystery Knight. It’s a great palate cleanser, especially between AFFC and ADWD. It’s just nice to have a character we can cheer for unambiguously. More Dunk and Egg! Also on that note, I heard that Martin is planning to print a D&E anthology after he releases the fourth novella that collects all four into one book.
The problem with AFFC is that not much actually happens in it. There is more action in the final 1/3 of ASOS then in the entire AFFC. Unsurprisingly it seems to be the least popular novel in the series. ADWD on the hand seems to get a mixed reaction from the fans, many critisize it, but there are also a lot of people who rate it on par with (or even above then) the first three novels. So it would be very interesting to see what your reaction will be.
@11, The thing is, Braavos was founded by freed slaves. This indicates to me that they, more than anyone, can appreciate the fact that unchecked power leads to corruption and oppression, and I can see the political structure of the city state would understand having such a necessary check on their power.
Thanks for the recap!
Great summary! Personally, I found AFFC very enjoyable on re-read, but then, I like most of the featured characters, as well as appreciate the picture of what this war has really done to the country. Nor do I hunker for climaxes per se. There are only so many that can happen in just a couple of years or so.
In fact, I have always felt that the time-line between the beginning of AGoT – and ending of AFFC should have been twice as long.
One small correction, though – Brienne didn’t seek to save herself, but Pod, an innocent boy. And since the Brotherhood is very likely to hang on to him, it is not a question of honor. It is a question of an innocent child dying for Jaime’s sins. Which, for some of them he had really good reasons (killing of Aerys), but for many others he didn’t (incest, chucking Bran out of the window, etc).
Great summary! I had forgotten exactly why I hated Victarion. This summary reminded me!
@19: On the point of Brienne and honor, this is very true. Honor would have dictated, in that circumstance, that she die. Instead, she might now act to dishonor the oath she swore to Jaime in order to save Pod. While Jaime said this back when he hated him, when Cat made him swear to return her daughters, he did say that oaths are not always able to be kept due to circunstance or other oaths conflicting.
When you start A Dance With Dragons, you should just give a link to your previous posts from the A Storm of Swords, with the last chapter of each POV. That way everyone following along can catch up if they need to but without actually rehashing everything again.
Also, I’m loving your posts! I’m reading these books for the first time right now and I’m currently in aDwD. I like reading your posts as I read. It’s like a cyber book club.
@19 Oh he had lots of good reasons for chucking Bran out the window. If he hadn’t, he would be executed, Cersie would be executed, very likely all of his children would have been executed, a good chance of Tyrion being executed as I don’t think he would accept his siblings being executed, war with Tywin as he most definately wouldn’t react well to his children being executed as you can see what he did when his most despised child Tyrion was taken into custody by Caetlyn.
As he said “the things I do for love”, it wasn’t just his love for Cersie, but also his children, his father and his brother, plus preventing war. Yes it was his bad actions that put him into that position, but I think most of us, if put in that position having to weigh those options, would pitch the kid out the window as well.
@23: I was actually refering to the point when Cat accuses of him for being a man without honor reguarding his broken oaths to Aerys. It was that point that he identified that these oaths conflict with other oaths or morality. I really don’t want a to hear an excuse for what he did to Bran, because that was somehing he should, and does, own as his own fault.
I would like to read the Tales of D&E series, but I can only seem to find the Graphic Novel editions online. Seems like most of you hardcore fans have read the novellas. Where did you find them?
@25: Well this is embarassing, I linked a site for the graphic novel…
Edit: this is a little bit more perplexing to me, I thought it would be easier but I turn up a lot of searches for this comic.
@23: Sorry, someone who would sleep with the king’s wife (who’s his own sister) even though he knows it puts their children’s lives in danger, gets no sympathy points for throwing a child out of a window. By that logic, it was easier for Jaime to throw Bran out of a window than to, err, not sleep with his sister. Since, you know, both actions could serve the same effect of protecting their children’s lives.
Not to mention, that Jaime clearly only refers to Cersei when he says “the things I do for love”. At that point in the narrative, he cared nothing for the kids. That’s why he even says he’d be willing to kill everyone in the world except Cersei and himself (the kids could die just like everyone else, according to Ser Jaime).
Amazing summary Leigh. As always your post made my thursday!
— Valère from France
I. Dunk and Egg stories – hard copy
The Hedge Knight – Legends (Silverberg, ed.); also Dreamsongs I (don’t remember the ed – collection of GRRM shorter works).
The Sworn Sword – Legends II (Silverberg, ed)
The Mystery Knight – Warriors (Dozois and Martin, eds).
II. Online – I have no idea. I had assumed you could get them from Amazon or other e-retailer. You can also get (illegal) pdf copies on web, but I’m not recommending that.
I was able to get the first on on my Kindle when I bought legends (you have to buy the whole book, but it’s only like $6 or so)
In Brazil the three stories are sold in a separate book, called “O cavaleiro dos sete reinos” (The knight from the Seven Realms). I heard they did the same in other countries, compiling the tales in a separate book. I wonder why this never happened in the US.
@31 I hear that Martin is planning a few more and wants to wait until they’re all out before collecting them. I guess he pays less attention to (or has less control over) the foreign language editions.
LOLOMGLOL.. I don’t know if you ended up enjoying writing this or not, Leigh, but from my perspective, it was totally worth it. : )
Great review!
AFFC is my favorite partly because it’s less full of catastrous disastrophes (thanks BFG) than the first three. We have time for a more leisurely look at diverse landscapes and cultures, both postwar (KL, riverlands) and not yet war-wracked (Braavos, Dorne, Oldtown), along with lots of new characters and personal backstories. It revealed half a hundred manifestations of misogyny and sundry other evils, but also a lot of beautiful minutiae. And I Found My True Religion therein, but never mind that.
Never fear; we’ll have Plenty To Talk About in ADWD.
Note: Highgarden is some distance inland on the Mander River, and we last saw Vic and Euron pillaging the Shield Islands near the river’s mouth. Their conquest there puts Highgarden (and everywhere else reachable by boat) in serious danger, but it hadn”t yet been “closely” approached.
You never thought you’d be upset by the prospect of Jaime getting literally or figuratively kicked in the teeth, eh? *grins wickedly*
Yeah, there isn’t much climactic stuff in AFFC. Others have said it’s largely about the price of war (and I agree, and that’s one of the reasons I actually enjoy the split from ADWD, which IMO is more about the price of peace), but another way to think about it is that Martin is reloading.
It’s been a while since we were there, so it’s hard to remember, but most of AGoT and the first 2/3 of ACoK were setup for the shitshow to follow also. Leigh has old summaries that start with things like “holy infodump, Batman,” in a similar fashion to how she regarded the opening Dorne and Islands chapters.
Until AFFC, we’d been seeing serious action on one arc or another pretty much since the Blackwater. ASoS is in some ways more like the climax of a three-parter than a book on its own. AFFC allows us to see what all that excitement really wrought, and it’s the slow trip back up to the top of the roller coaster. The thing about how great ASoS was in terms of payoff is that it used all that payoff up. There has to be a *lot* of time devoted to more setup in the following two books if we hope to see another round of similarly great payoff at the end of the series.
@34 Aerona- Congrats on retaking the black (finally)! We can agree to disagree on the merits of the Ironborn (and Aeron Damphair) and AFFC in general, but that was a low (if hilarious) dig at Leigh’s clear (and apparent) love for Jaime. Bravo.
On Leigh’s overall summary, I agree that AFFC didn’t deliver as much oomph as the previous books, particularly AGOT and ASOS, but I have grown to appreciate it more on rereads, even if it isn’t my favorite. Leigh is right, it didn’t have quite the impact that the first and third books did, though it may have as much visceral punch as the second book (ASOS) did. Without giving anything away, let me just say that I’m confident at least SOME of the fifth book will deliver what Leigh is
dreadinglooking for.@36: I hate Euron, Victarion, and everything they do, and would also hate Aeron if his fanatacism was directed at non-marine things. But I’m gloom-prone, self-righteous, and obsessed with oceans just like him, and love is irrational. I am defying the religion’s patriarchy by dressing as a Drowned God’s priestess for the third consecutive Halloween…
@31 there is a plan for that, but it might not be until the fourth one is released.
A “little” request — the next book is too large for one review, but it has no named/numbered chapters, right? Would it be possible to post the page numbers of the most common editions with each review? I’ll try to read it right before I read the review …
(I have the Tor paperback, 978-0-7653-6026-7, but it would be selfish just to ask for my numbers.)
AFFC does lack action compared to the other books, and certainly lacks climaxes, but I enjoyed it as much as the other books in the series. I think the main reasons many people disliked it were 1) because they waited 5 years for it, and 2) then they discovered that it only continued the stories of half of the characters they already knew, and that they had to wait more (and it turned out to be 6 more years!) to learn about the fates of Tyrion, Dany, Jon, Davos, Stannis, Bran etc. Besides, 3) people couldn’t help expecting it to be another ASOS, full of climactic events; but ASOS was the resolution/climax of the first part of the story, while AFFC was the setup/beginning of the second part, with a whole bunch of new characters introduced. In addition, some of the characters (Sansa and Arya) and in the training/mentorship stage, with lots of character development, but not a lot of action. (This is probably a consequence of GRRM’s abandonment of his original plan to have a 5-years gap after ASOS, which would have allowed for the kids to grow up.)
I originally read ASOS and AFFC back to back (since I borrowed them both from the library at the same time) and aach of them took me about three weeks. Even though ASOS was full of climactic events and AFFC was not, I enjoyed it as well and found it interesting. Well, with the exception of Aeron’s and Victarion’s chapters, which I had trouble getting through. But I was glad to see Asha get a POV, and Dorne and the Dornish are a very interesting culture. I loved Sansa’s and Arya’s chapters, particularly the former, because of all the subtle psychological development, in spite of the lack of action and even though they did not have many chapters. But perhaps the most important difference between me and the people who dislike this book is that I really enjoyed Brienne’s chapters and never found them boring. They were my favorites after Sansa’s. One reason was that I really love Brienne – I liked her before, but she became my favorite after we got into her head – and found her struggle against the sexism and prejudice she’s faced all her life really compelling; the other reason is that I’ve always loved the chapters taking place in the Riverlands and showing the horrors and devastation that the smallfolk faced during the war (which is why A Clash of Kings is one of my favorite books in the series, and why I liked it better than A Game of Thrones; Arya’s chapters in ACOK were among my favorite storylines in the series). Well, there’s also the fact that my favorite character, Sandor, was talked about so much that he felt like a presence in the book, even though he doesn’t appear in it (or well, he does, but very briefly). I also really enjoyed Jaime’s and Cersei’s chapters and their opposite character arcs. Jaime is another one of my favorite characters, and I find Cersei to be really interesting and complex. Some characters become more sympathetic with a POV and some less so (Theon was really annoying in ACOK, and let’s not forget Chett), but Cersei, for me, remained the same, overall – however, with a deeper understanding of all that shaped her into who she is.
Overall, while I share the popular opinion that ASOS is the best, I may actually like AGOT less than all the later books; not that it’s not great, I loved it and Dany’s and Ned’s stories are great, and there’s a lot of backstory about Robert’s Rebellion in Ned’s chapters; but, since it was an introductory book, so many of the other characters were only starting to break out of/subvert the somewhat stereotypical roles they seemed to be given at the start of the story.
@7 – Wow, I never thought that way about the title of A Storm of Swords! I used to think that it had the worst/least interesting title out of all the books in the series, but your explanation has changed that now.
Since the Tales of Dunk and Eggs aren’t going to be published as an anthology any time soon, I got them in graphic novels form to follow this read. I had to wait a few weeks after The Sworn Sword read because it was being re-edited; but this time, there are no news about The Mystery Knight adaptation, except for a blog post by Martin 15 months ago that said it was in the works. I know that with Martin, I shouldn’t expect quick writing, but the story is already published and there is only only the adaptation work to do: Mike S. Miller, draw like the wind!
So thank you Andrada. I would have prefered to have bought the graphic novel before getting PDF, but it will have to do. It will also be nice to see the differences between the other novellas and their adaptations.
@23 – Crediting Jaime for protecting his family from the consequences of his own actions comes pretty close to meeting the classic definition of chutzpah.
Edit: Sorry, everyone. I posted a thing about Little Mermaid here, that should have been on a different Tor.com thread. I’m blaming pregancy brain for not making me check what post I had up.
@45, glad you like it. :-)
@44 – That seems to be a common theme throughout literature; heck, I always read the Garden of Eden as being about morality and free will. By gaining knowledge, man was not so much corrupted, as gained the ability to corrupt himself (or do the opposite).
I know it’s not an original interpretation, but I was always inclined to believe God was kicking his lazy, slacker kids out of the basement to force them to get a job and life of their own. All the lamentation about inncence lost, etc. was just Adam being emo teen about his mean ole dad making him take responsibility for his own life.
@10 Starscream!? Brilliant!!
@17 I don’t see why anyone in Braavos would think that having an openly acting society of contract killers around would make anyone safer, freer or more equal.
“I am just tired of reading about her”
That was my thought of every character by the time I had finished this book. I still haven’t found the heart to pick up Dance of Dragons.
@46 Well, I was too lazy to hotlink the word and add the obligatory disclaimer to not click on it unless one has a lot of free time, so I wouldn’t go as far as “brilliant”, but thanks!
My thoughts on AFFC is that it suffers from George wanting to do the book ‘5 years later’ from the events of ASOS but not getting the narrative to fit dramatically. It suffers a lot from the Iron Born excess and other dangling plots. Breaking the book up into two volumes was a big mistake and dropping the IronBorn and Quentyn Martel plots and cutting a bit from Brienne’s quest would have streamlined things a lot amd may have allowed for one volume in better continuity.
@47, Because they are a check on the excesses of power. If you treat your citizenry like crap, and all it takes do something about is your name written on a scrap a paper, you think twice about treating your citizenry like crap.
Everybody in Westeros seems to think it takes a great deal of money to hire FM, but in Braavos this is shown to not be the case. It seems they only upcharge when it is done for purposes that do not align with their religious calling.
@47: The FM may also have ties to those that hold power in Braavos, or are those that secretly hold power.
@12: Littlefinger is hoping for Tyrion to die for his plan to work, but Sansa’s marriage to Tyrion could also be annulled because it was never consummated. However, the problem in that scenario would be that she would have to ask the High Septon for an annulment, and for that, she would need to reveal herself as Sansa Stark to the HS, at least.
I have to say pretty firmly that, even after doing a AFFC+ADWD reread, I am convinced AFFC is a bad novel, both individually and as part of ASOIAF.
Individually, it is primarily concerned a) a smorgasboard of characters who I didn’t know existed until this book and quite frankly could have spent the rest of my life not knowing about; b) multiple arcs of characters going places and doing absolutely nothing until they get to the last place, whereupon the camera veers away while Martin says, “Oh I’m sorry, did you want to see something happen?”; c) Cersei, patron saint of the criminally stupid and/or insane.
People say, “Well it comes after ASOS, you can’t expect it to be as amazing,” and that’s fair. But compare AFFC to AGOT, which is the beginning of act one. AGOT has multiple “oh ****” moments going on, and because a good number of characters are within two hundred thousand leagues of each other and a good amount of the travel is skipped, you’re constantly uncertain about the playing field. In AFFC, they’re scattered to the winds, almost no one’s allegiance changes, and until their last chapters no one loses much of anything.
As far as being a bad novel in ASOIAF as a whole, the series seems to have three protagonists at this point: Tyrion (Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Book), Dany (Lady Not-Appearing-in-This-Book), and Jon (Lord Commander Only-Technically-Appearing-in-This-Book). Some might say “Oh, it’s split by geography,” but it’s not like we didn’t show off Arya even though she’s in the east too. If this book’s pointless travel and Cersei chapters had been cut, we could have had at least ONE of these three characters have their arc, and that would have helped immensely.
#54: The series has more than three protagonists. The idea about the “Jon, Dany and Tyrion” protagonist trio is just something some fans came up with that people have latched onto.
@55: No, sorry. They are the central protagonists of the story, especially Jon and Dany since they’re being set up to deal with that Other problem that this story is going to be about in twelve books or so.
@53 Annara Snow- Yes, Tyrion’s marriage to Sansa can be annulled, because it has not been consummated, but that seems besides the point. For the annulment to happen, I think both of them have to agree (I’m not sure about this, but given the male preeminence in Westerosi culture I doubt Sansa can just have it annulled without Tyrion’s presence and acquiescence). Littlefinger is banking on Tyrion being killed, which would clear the path for Sansa’s marraige to the Young Falcon and let her try to retake the North with the knights of the Vale behind her, plus surely many Northern lords who would support the only remaining Stark (or, for those who believe that the fake Arya is real, the eldest surviving Stark). Of course we, the readers, know that Bran and Rickon are both alive, and we also know that Robb had Jon legitimized (or at least said he was going to, and some people present at that meeting are still alive), just to prevent the North from falling into Lannister hands.
In the big picture, LF is operating under some false assumptions, most obviously that Bran and Rickon are dead, but also that Tyrion will soon be found and killed to pave the way for him getting control over the North through Sansa and the Vale through her marriage. I can’t claim to know everything that’s in his mind, nor what he knows about Dany, the Martells’ plans, etc…, but I do know that he is a very smart man and good at improvising, so undoubtedly he has further plans that have not yet been revealed. But I think that some of his plans are based on the assumption that Bran and Rickon are dead and Tyrion soon will be, which also means that he, too, would likely try to have tham killed if he learns of their whereabout, in addition to Cersei and the Boltons and everyone else who wants them dead.
AFFC definitely has issues and I consider it to be the weakest novel in the series. But criticising it purely because none of your three favourite characters is present in the book seems a bit superficial.
For me at least there is a lot of difference between a likeable character and an interesting character. Cercei is a horrible person, of course, but she is also one of the most complex and interesting characters in the series. I find it amazing how Martin managed to make her do obscenely evil things and yet make it all seem organic and realistic at the same time. I think her story is one of the strong sides of AFFC. (Victarion and Aeron are ~relatively~ uninteresting, but even they are far from being simple one-dimensial villains.)
Sansa’s and Arya’s arcs are very good too (but short).
I do agree that there is too much travelogue in Brienne’s, Sam’s and Jaime’s chapters. But they also have some great lyrical moments such as Meribald’s speech, the Quiet Isle chapter, Sam’s eulogy to Aemon, and more.
Greyjoy and Martell chapters were probably the least interesting ones, and they are basicly setting us up for some future events. The characters do have some depth (especially Doran and Arianne Martell) and it should be interesting to read about them in the future.
Overall I rate AFFC firmly below any other novel in the series to date, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that it was bad or entirely uninteresting.
@58: They aren’t my three favorite characters. My favorite characters are Sansa, Sam, and Jaime. Cersei isn’t complex or interesting. She boils down to “I am woman, hear me roar, but wait I am afraid of this prophecy.” She’s eye-rolling in terms of her struggle against the patriarchy because all of our other female POVs do it in a more interesting way than she does – only Dany is also a queen and even she has put up with some BS.
Sansa doesn’t have an arc in this book. She has a line segment. She goes from being up in the Eyrie with Sweetrobin and Pedobear to being down in the Vale with Sweetrobin, Pedobear, and Lady Gossip. Arya has an arc, but it’s too short and there’s no climax. Which is why AFFC is a bad novel all around; there’s almost NO payoff.
Sam arrives at Hogwarts. Good job buddy. Harry Potter might have taken half a book to get there, but you sure beat his record huh? Shame we don’t get to see your equivalents to the exciting parts of those books.
Cersei gets arrested for her BS. That’s a start, but it’s not a payoff. Ned went from Lord Regent to 2nd in Command to Fully Headless Ned in the space of a book. Tyrion went from Hand to Exile in the space of a book. AFFC starts with Cersei as #1 and yet still can’t find the time to actually have her trial; that part where the exciting things might happen.
Arya goes blind. So what? Last book she got clubbed by an axe while her family was being slaughtered – and then had another chapter where even more exciting stuff happened to boot. Brienne probably says “Sword”. WOW! Glad to see you spent AN ENTIRE BOOK wasting time not getting shit done. Yeah, Quiet Isle and Maribald were nice, but the last three books had cool speeches AND plot-relevant action. She goes from fight to fight with all the purpose and grandeur of Don Quixote, and that’s kind of a disservice to her.
Arienne starts a plot involving Myrcella, who is a C-list character at best (compared to A-list POVs and B-list people who matter besides that). In the end, the plot falls apart and she gets lectured but there’s not really a point to actually seeing it. Remember how in the last three books all sorts of plot stuff could go down without us having to see it? This is what this entire sequence was. The Iron Islanders suffer from this even more. The Kingsmoot is kind of climactic but then it just keeps going and going and going like an energizer merbunny.
Meanwhile, this series has consistently built itself up around
1- The Others, who do nothing in this book. Nor do the Wildlings.
2- The Dragons, who do nothing in this book. Nor does Dany.
3- Varys’s and Littlefinger’s various schemes, which don’t progress in this book. Being told what Littlefinger’s plans are isn’t drama, especially if (god help us all), we then have to see Sansa do all the stuff Littlefinger said she was going to do.
4- Tyrion’s issues with his life, which doesn’t happen in this book.
5 and most popular- The politics of King’s Landing, which in this book are “Crazy dude with no respect for the living or dead abducts nobles; queen to have trial but there’s no outcome and for all we know she could get off scot-free, rendering this entire book an exercise in futility.”
I’m reminded of the novel of The Princes Bride, where the narrator “abridges” an entire chapter of the novel with little to no plot relevance by saying, “And what with one thing and another, three years passed.” That’s the plot summary of AFFC, right there in a nutshell.
However, the problem in that scenario would be that she would have to ask the High Septon for an annulment, and for that, she would need to reveal herself as Sansa Stark to the HS, at least.
Sansa is from the north, where the old gods are worshipped. They must have a different method than asking the High Septon.
@60, But she was married in the Light of the Seven
@59, I love how people who have not yet finished the series feel very comfortable declaring that an entire book accomplished nothing within the series.
@61: And I love your attitude. I’ve read everything that’s out so far except P&Q and RP, and when Leigh has finished ADWD I’ll have more to say about the structure of the second act of ASOIAF.
That’s pretty much exactly what GRRM originally intended. There was supposed to be a five-year gap while each of the Stark children completed their respective internships, and we catch up on the action as the Essos and Westeros plots started to collide.
As I understand it, while writing he realized that (a) there was too much material in some arcs to skim over, (b) there was not enough material in some arcs to fill out, and (c) he was not yet ready to merge Essos and Westeros regardless of (a) and (b). Juggling all three at once is what led to the sprawl, and splitting the narrative.
I actually rather liked FFC, but still maintain that it needed to be trimmed down alongside DWD.
#56 No, sorry, that’s just your opinion. It’s not any kind of a fact, as you’re making it to be.
#57 Actually, according to GRRM, Tyrion’s presence or agreement is not necessary to annul the marriage. Even Sansa’s presence would not be necessary. But she would have to ask the High Septon for annulment – the HS would need a request from one of the spouses. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Minisa_Tully_and_Sansa (Which makes sense considering Tywin’s insistence that the marriage could be set aside if it’s not consumated; if both sides needed to agree, I don’t think he would have been so concerned about it otherwise.)
The obvious problem is that she would need to reveal who she is to the High Septon.
#59:
That’s the whole point. Cersei is no feminist heroine, any more than Littlefinger is a socialist hero fighting for the lower classes. Cersei has been a victim of the system, but she is the person with the most internalized misogyny in ASOAIF, who despises her gender and victimizes other women, as well as other people who are powerless and victimized by the system (smallfolk, children, dwarfs…). She both resents her father and wants to emulate him; she both loves Jaime (in her selfish way) and envies him. She can be hilarious (mostly unintentionally, though she can sometimes have good zingers similar to her brothers – the line about the ship named after Tywin and how much she liked her father being referred to as “she” made me laugh), horrible, pitiable and horrible again, all in the space of the same chapter. Take just the chapter where she thinks about Robert’s abuse of her, and then tries to abuse Taena in a similar way, picturing herself as Robert (trying to be the man, the abuser) while simultaneously thinking about the ways she prevented Robert from having trueborn heirs. Just the sheer amount of gender and sexual issues Cersei exhibits in that one scene is enough to make her a very complex and interesting character.
#63: I think that what he realized was what an awful idea it always was, since the adults were not going to stop doing anything important during those five years until the kids grew up. GRRM has pretty much said that (minus the “awful idea” part). Perhaps it could be doable in time of peace and stability such as there was between the Greyjoy Rebellion and the death of Jon Arryn, but Westeros was definitely still in war (or rather, wars, all over the place) at the end of ASOS, let alone any kind of stability even in places where there was no war (like King’s Landing, which was obviously going to be incredibly unstable after Tywin’s death).
Can Sansa’s marriage be anulled unilaterally if she claims she stopped worshipping the Seven at the time she swore her vows to Tyrion.
Numerous witnesses in King’s Landing can attest to the fact that she spent most of her time there in the Godswood, but never at the Sept except (that was a pun, or play on words) at official functions.
Combined with the fact that it was never consummated, that might be enough for the Northern lords to accept her claim to Winterfell (especially since it’d already be in their own self-interest).
Off topic: I wish there could be a ban on people saying “I love it when people…” As passive-aggression goes, it’s up there with “I’m sorry but…”
@67 I’m sorry, but no bans here ;)
@67. You have confused passive aggression with sarcasm.
@47: If there has to be an assassin’s guild in the world, wouldn’t you (as a government) want it to be somewhere you can monitor it rather than in a different government’s sphere of influence?
@66: If Sansa could get her marriage to Tyrion annulled, then because all the other candidates ahead of her are dead, believed dead, or in the Night’s Watch then yes, she may become the lady of Winterfell. But I’m not sure how accepting the Northern lords would be of that — the “taint” of being married to one of the Lannisters probably would still afflict her in their minds. They’d hope to marry her off to one of their sons, have her pop out an heir or two, and then sit quietly in the corner as a figurehead at best.
If either Jon (or perhaps Benjen — remember him?) could find some way to resign from the Night’s Watch without being foresworn they’d be much more supportive of him ruling Winterfell — Jon more than Benjen, since Jon took the black more recently. Yeah, he’s a bastard, but he has Ned Stark’s blood and he has leadership experience from his time in the Watch.
Arya’s the other candidate that is not dead, believed dead, or in the Night’s Watch. My personal prediction for her is that she will survive into the final book (metagamingly, she’s the only character that’s had a POV chapter in each book so far) but go out in a blaze of glory with “Not today” on her lips right after assassinating the last person on her list. Regardless, she doesn’t strike me as being at all interested in ruling Winterfell or marrying and popping out babies.
@67 -69
Just sayin’…
@71, I am incapable of PASSIVE aggression, AGGRESSIVE aggression is all I’m wired for.
#70 Arya is believed to be married to Ramsay Bolton (if people buy the Boltons’ attempt to pass Jeyne as her) or believed to be dead (if they don’t).
@73 — the thing that always freaks me out about fantasy scenarios like that is… how will she prove that she’s herself if/when she comes back?
ASoIaF read posting statistics up to the end of AFFC
– different spellings of usernames are counted separately
– punctuation is counted as words
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top 50 posters by number of words
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1: RobMRobM;104986;800;131.0
2: stevenhalter;62443;429;145.0
3: Aeryl;54097;564;95.0
4: IndependentGeorge;38464;288;133.0
5: Wortmauer;31840;77;413.0
6: Isilel;31691;93;340.0
7: MDNY;30385;185;164.0
8: Bill D5;29947;36;831.0
9: Aegnor;24151;241;100.0
10: Annara Snow;19824;51;388.0
11: Ryamano;19509;92;212.0
12: Braid_Tug;17904;174;102.0
13: Gregor Lewis;17835;43;414.0
14: AeronaGreenjoy;15974;134;119.0
15: Lisamarie;14820;82;180.0
16: Randalator;14601;127;114.0
17: AlirozTheConfused;13447;99;135.0
18: Bergmaniac;13143;110;119.0
19: toryx;12700;93;136.0
20: Tabbyfl55;12683;143;88.0
21: Lyanna Mormont;12461;75;166.0
22: Juliet_Kestrel;12318;61;201.0
23: GarrettC;11923;68;175.0
24: tnh;10930;73;149.0
25: Black Dread;10698;180;59.0
26: anthonypero;10493;122;86.0
27: Lsana;10436;66;158.0
28: subwoofer;10155;40;253.0
29: Maddy1990;10044;58;173.0
30: joev;9667;52;185.0
31: a1ay;9347;69;135.0
32: Alisonwonderland;8792;63;139.0
33: naupathia;8511;30;283.0
34: Tektonica;8452;67;126.0
35: billiam;8225;47;175.0
36: matthew1215;8199;45;182.0
37: Cannoli;8066;15;537.0
38: DougL;7310;89;82.0
39: zambi76;7310;74;98.0
40: EliBishop;7188;55;130.0
41: The SmilingKnight;6974;41;170.0
42: Looking Glass;6672;15;444.0
43: birgit;6553;57;114.0
44: sofrina;6518;56;116.0
45: phuzz;6503;55;118.0
46: Nessa;6418;30;213.0
47: BMcGovern;6092;63;96.0
48: hihosilver28;5842;83;70.0
49: CarpeComputer;5825;15;388.0
50: TG12;5691;48;118.0
There were 1602 different usernames; 832 appeared only once.
ASoIaF read posting statistics AFFC only
top 53 posters by number of comments
username;comments;words;average words per comment
1: Aeryl;262;30370;115.0
2: RobMRobM;138;12802;92.0
3: stevenhalter;121;22480;185.0
4: AeronaGreenjoy;112;14727;131.0
5: MDNY;108;18752;173.0
6: IndependentGeorge;105;15446;147.0
7: Tabbyfl55;84;6103;72.0
8: Braid_Tug;73;7876;107.0
9: Black Dread;73;5384;73.0
10: Lyanna Mormont;64;10509;164.0
11: Ryamano;58;13102;225.0
12: Lisamarie;55;10860;197.0
13: Annara Snow;51;19824;388.0
14: Randalator;50;6176;123.0
15: Sophist;44;4745;107.0
16: Minstral;40;4758;118.0
17: DougL;39;2977;76.0
18: hihosilver28;37;2475;66.0
19: Bill D5;35;28211;806.0
20: Isilel;32;12408;387.0
21: zambi76;32;4024;125.0
22: a1ay;32;4220;131.0
23: Gregor Lewis;32;13896;434.0
24: Maddy1990;30;4788;159.0
25: NickH;25;4092;163.0
26: naupathia;24;6514;271.0
27: kassiva;24;5472;228.0
28: AlirozTheConfused;22;3727;169.0
29: GarrettC;21;3861;183.0
30: birgit;20;1190;59.0
31: scaredicat;20;2407;120.0
32: SkylarkThibedeau;20;1546;77.0
33: BMcGovern;19;2206;116.0
34: Athreeren;19;2814;148.0
35: Heronimus Rex;19;2520;132.0
36: just some guy;18;1417;78.0
37: joev;16;3489;218.0
38: TG12;16;1670;104.0
39: o.m.;16;950;59.0
40: Greenseer;16;5567;347.0
41: Crusader75;14;979;69.0
42: EliBishop;14;2008;143.0
43: bookworm1398;12;1172;97.0
44: beastofman;12;1293;107.0
45: SlackerSpice;12;887;73.0
46: anthonypero;11;1206;109.0
47: Alisonwonderland;11;1116;101.0
48: Guest 77;11;483;43.0
49: Gesar;11;1276;116.0
50: lfb;11;995;90.0
51: species5618w;11;1946;176.0
52: WCjobber;11;925;84.0
53: Cass314;11;1123;102.0
top 50 posters by number of words
username;words;comments;average words per comment
1: Aeryl;30370;262;115.0
2: Bill D5;28211;35;806.0
3: stevenhalter;22480;121;185.0
4: Annara Snow;19824;51;388.0
5: MDNY;18752;108;173.0
6: IndependentGeorge;15446;105;147.0
7: AeronaGreenjoy;14727;112;131.0
8: Gregor Lewis;13896;32;434.0
9: Ryamano;13102;58;225.0
10: RobMRobM;12802;138;92.0
11: Isilel;12408;32;387.0
12: Lisamarie;10860;55;197.0
13: Lyanna Mormont;10509;64;164.0
14: Braid_Tug;7876;73;107.0
15: naupathia;6514;24;271.0
16: Randalator;6176;50;123.0
17: Tabbyfl55;6103;84;72.0
18: Greenseer;5567;16;347.0
19: kassiva;5472;24;228.0
20: Black Dread;5384;73;73.0
21: Maddy1990;4788;30;159.0
22: Minstral;4758;40;118.0
23: Sophist;4745;44;107.0
24: a1ay;4220;32;131.0
25: NickH;4092;25;163.0
26: zambi76;4024;32;125.0
27: GarrettC;3861;21;183.0
28: AlirozTheConfused;3727;22;169.0
29: joev;3489;16;218.0
30: The Prince;3193;10;319.0
31: DougL;2977;39;76.0
32: Maac;2837;9;315.0
33: Athreeren;2814;19;148.0
34: Moniker;2646;1;2646.0
35: Heronimus Rex;2520;19;132.0
36: hihosilver28;2475;37;66.0
37: scaredicat;2407;20;120.0
38: Iarvin;2402;9;266.0
39: BMcGovern;2206;19;116.0
40: Brandi;2123;9;235.0
41: EliBishop;2008;14;143.0
42: species5618w;1946;11;176.0
43: Owlay;1898;9;210.0
44: TG12;1670;16;104.0
45: SkylarkThibedeau;1546;20;77.0
46: billiam;1517;5;303.0
47: Legendary;1517;8;189.0
48: just some guy;1417;18;78.0
49: KatherineW;1328;5;265.0
50: Dragonriding Moogle;1311;7;187.0
There were 452 different usernames; 230 appeared only once.
OOPS
Thanks Brigit!
I didn’t know you were doing this for the ASoIaF read.
Woot! Top 20 in all groupings. :-)
A novel worth for ASoIaF and a novella worth for AFFC.
Birgit – thanks, as always. Some mighty fine commenting buried in these dry statistics….
@74. That’s where bonded direwolves are useful.
I’m glad to see a summary, especially as I haven’t read the Dunk and Egg stories yet (except the first one) so this is something I get to read :)
The Greyjoy synopsis is right on :)
I am definitely interseted in your take on ADWD. I agree they aren’t as filled with big happenings, but I think there are a lot of underlying curents. I understand that’s not everybody’s thing though, but I tend to enjoy it actually.
“So presumably she’s agreed to kill Jaime in order to save herself” imo, she’s doing it to save Pod. not that it really matters but I feel like that’s wayy more in character